Webster

The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions." --American Statesman Daniel Webster (1782-1852)


Showing posts with label pistols. Show all posts
Showing posts with label pistols. Show all posts

Wednesday, March 31, 2021

The U.S Model of 1917 Revolvers

 I saw this on American Rifleman and after reading it, I learned quite a bit, I thought we went to war with the 1911 series pistol, any revolvers were personal firearms.  I apparently was in error from the article, they issued revolvers and they fired the 45 ACP for commonality of caliber with the 1911 series pistol.  




When the United States entered World War I during the spring of 1917, our armed forces were woefully lacking in many types of arms and war materiel. One of the bright spots in Uncle Sam’s arsenal, however, was the superb Model of 1911 .45 ACP pistol. Unfortunately, there weren’t nearly enough in the government’s inventory to meet the rapidly growing demand. The U.S. military needed many more handguns—and needed them in a hurry.

At the time of America’s entry into the war, the only manufacturer of the M1911 was the Colt Patent Firearms Mfg. Co. Springfield Armory had manufactured 25,767 M1911 pistols from Fiscal Year 1914 to 1917, but the Armory was too burdened with increased manufacture of the Model of 1903 rifle and other arms to resume making the pistols.

Plans were formulated to have other commercial concerns produce M1911s under contract, but it was recognized that the lag time required for the firms to start manufacturing would result in a serious shortage of handguns at a very critical time. The Ordnance Dept. had to look elsewhere for handguns that could be procured as soon as possible to arm the burgeoning number of troops.

The two major manufacturers of handguns in the country at the time, Colt and Smith & Wesson, both had large-frame revolvers in their product lines with production tooling and trained workers available to manufacture their guns under government contract. The Colt revolver was the “New Service,” and the company had previously manufactured a version of this .45 Colt revolver for the U.S. government, the Model of 1909, but it saw very limited service and was soon superseded by the M1911. The Smith & Wesson revolver was the Second Model .44 Hand Ejector.

U.S. Marine armed with a Colt M1917 revolver
A U.S. Marine armed with a Colt M1917 revolver warily approaches a Japanese bunker on Okinawa.


In order to reduce supply and logistical problems, it was mandatory that any revolvers produced under military contract be chambered for the standard .45 ACP cartridge, but neither company had yet offered its revolvers in that chambering. To accommodate the rimless .45 ACP, it was necessary to devise some method of positioning cartridges in the cylinder. Otherwise, the rimless cartridges could not be fired or ejected from the cylinders that were originally designed for rimmed cartridges.

Smith & Wesson re-designed its cylinders to incorporate a shoulder to hold the .45 ACP round in place so it could be fired, but the expended cases had to be manually extracted. To solve this problem, S&W devised an ingenious “half-moon” sheet metal clip that held three cartridges, each properly positioned in the cylinder.

Two of the clips were loaded into the cylinder and the expended cases could be easily ejected. Unlike the S&W revolver, the Colt gun did not initially incorporate the shoulder, which required the “half-moon” clips be used for both firing and ejecting the rounds. An Ordnance Dept. report described the “half-moon” clips:

“A semi-circular clip holding three cartridges, permitted the use of the rimless automatic cartridges in the M1917 Revolver. Without the clip, fired cartridges could not be ejected simultaneously from all six chambers as with the rim type .45 Colt Cartridge. By using these clips, instead of the slower operation of inserting six cartridges singly, the revolvers’ rate of fire was materially increased.”

The Colt and S&W revolvers were adopted as the “Model of 1917.” As was the case with the products of both companies, the M1917 revolvers were well-made and dependable. Except for the hammers and triggers, the external metal parts were blued. As an accommodation to an increased production rate, the final polishing was eventually omitted on the Colt-made revolvers, and the result was a “brushed blue” finish. The revolvers made by both firms were fitted with smooth walnut stocks and a lanyard ring. The nomenclature markings and serial number were stamped on the butt.

“half-moon” clip
This illustration of the Colt 1917 shows the “half-moon” clip.


The M1917 revolvers were carried in the same pattern of leather holsters as the Model 1909 revolvers, and new holsters manufactured during World War I retained the Model 1909 nomenclature.
 The gun was positioned in the holster with the butt forward, as was the preference of cavalry troopers. Canvas pouches were fabricated that could be fastened to the standard pistol belt and would accommodate three sets of two “half-moon” clips (total of 18 rounds).

Smith & Wesson delivered the first M1917 revolvers the first week of September 1917, and the Colt guns followed on Oct. 24, 1917. The book America’s Munitions–1917-1918, authored by Assistant Secretary of War Benedict Crowell, indicates that S&W manufactured 153,111 M1917s and Colt made 151,700 for a total of 304,811. However, these numbers do not include revolvers manufactured after Dec. 31, 1918.

As was the case with many other World War I government contracts, the manufacturers were permitted to remain in production into early 1919 so as to utilize existing raw materials previously ordered. This helped mitigate the financial hardships that would have resulted from an abrupt cut-off of the contracts. Most of the contracts contained a provision that the manufacturers would be reimbursed for any arms “in process” at the time of cancellation, thus it made sense for the manufacturers to complete them rather than for the government to pay for half-finished guns. A post-World War I Ordnance document dated Jan. 5, 1924, indicates that the total production of M1917 revolvers was 318,432, which includes the guns produced into early 1919.

The M1917s provided yeoman-like service during the war and proved to be reliable and effective military handguns. Following the Armistice, the M1911 remained the standardized U.S. military sidearm, but M1917s continued to play a supporting role between the wars.

General John Pershing
General John Pershing reviews troops during World War I. The majority of soldiers in the photo have U.S. M1917 revolvers in U.S. Model 1909 holsters.


Due to the fact that many of the M1917 revolvers saw extensive use in World War I, a number required re-building and refurbishment. It is reported that the Augusta Arsenal (Georgia) re-built 1,000 S&W revolvers in 1919-1920. Other ordnance facilities, including Rock Island Arsenal, also re-built some of these revolvers, but most of the overhaul work was done by Springfield Armory.

Canvas pouch
Canvas pouches for the clips were issued during World War I.

Due to the corrosive-primed ammunition of the period, the most common repair to Model 1917 revolvers was barrel replacements. Springfield Armory actually went into production of new barrels for Colt M1917 revolvers for a period of time. Typically, when a pistol or revolver, indeed almost any gun, was re-built by the military, the initials of the facility were stamped on the gun after the work was completed. The most commonly seen markings of this type found on the M1917 revolvers re-built after World War I were “SA” (for Springfield Armory), “RIA” (Rock Island Arsenal) and “AA” (Augusta Arsenal).

The M1917 revolvers saw little actual service use in the 1920s and 1930s. A number of Model 1917 revolvers were retained by the National Guard, and others were supplied to several governmental agencies, especially the Post Office. In the early 1920s, a rash of brazen, and sometimes quite violent, armed robberies of U.S. Post Office trains, trucks and facilities resulted in a number of U.S. Marines being called into service as “mail guards.”

Some of the Marines, as well as a number of postal employees, were armed with M1917 revolvers. The Marines also utilized M1911 pistols, M1903 rifles, 12-ga. “trench guns,” M1918 Browning Automatic Rifles and, later, Thompson submachine guns. Eventually, the mail robbery sprees were quelled and the Marines were withdrawn from such duty.

leather Model 1909 holster
The leather Model 1909 holster was originally designed for the Colt U.S. Model 1909 revolver. It was retained for use with the Colt and S&W Model 1917 revolvers and put back into production during World War I.

M1917 .45 Revolvers In World War II
As it became increasingly probable that the United States would be drawn into the war that erupted in Europe in 1939, the War Dept. evaluated existing military arms in Uncle Sam’s arsenal. One of these, of course, was the M1917 revolver. After the debacle at Dunkirk, a number of arms in our inventory were sent to the British to replace those lost in France. Among these were about 20,000 M1917 revolvers sent to Great Britain circa 1940-41.

After Pearl Harbor, there was a rush to procure all sorts of additional arms, and handguns were no exception. Production contracts for M1911A1 pistols were given to several American manufacturers. However, as was the case a quarter-century earlier, there was a lag time between issuance of the contracts and delivery of the new pistols. Once again, the Colt and S&W M1917 .45 ACP revolvers ably filled a void in America’s small arms arsenal.

Even though many of these revolvers had been overhauled in the 1920s and 1930s, a number of the guns still required refurbishment before they could be issued for use in World War II. Springfield Armory records indicate that 10,263 S&W and 4,017 Colt M1917 revolvers were re-conditioned in 1941. Additionally, quantities of replacement parts for both models were purchased for future overhaul requirements.

The issuance of the Model 1917 revolvers during World War II was discussed in an Ordnance publication: “Again, the M1917 Revolver was called upon as a substitute weapon. On Nov., 1, 1940, there was a total of 188,120 Revolvers M1917 in the field or in stores. Of these, 96,530 were of Colt manufacture and 91,590 Smith and Wesson. It was intended that the use of these weapons be restricted to the Continental United States, but 20,995 Revolvers actually got into combat theaters, due to shortage of M1911A1 Pistols. Primarily, the M1917 was issued to Military Police personnel, within the United States.”

two World War II U.S. Army military policemen
These two World War II U.S. Army military policemen are armed with .45 ACP M1917 revolvers carried in the early M1909 “butt-forward” style holster.

In the book, GI–The Infantryman In World War II, Robert Rush cited the use of these revolvers during training at Camp Wheeler, Ga., in March 1942:

“Next came pistol familiarization. The recruits were handed a M1917 .45 cal. Smith & Wesson revolver, shown how to aim, and with the admonition not to flinch because ‘it was nothing but a gun,’ they fired their 20 rounds at targets positioned 15 and 25 yards away … .” 

Many of the M1909 leather holsters dating from World War I continued in use during World War II with the M1917 revolvers. During World War II, a version of the holster that held the revolver with the butt to the rear was adopted and designated as “Holster, Revolver, Cal. .45, M2.”

Even though many more M1911/M1911A1 pistols were used during the war, the almost 21,000 M1917 revolvers that were issued to troops in overseas combat zones saw their fair share of action. While most would probably have preferred a M1911A1 pistol over a M1917 revolver, the latter an had its proponents. One of the more enthusiastic of these was Pvt. Richard Lyman, a paratrooper with the 517th Parachute Regimental Combat Team. As related in the Gerald Astor’s book, Battling Buzzards: The Odyssey Of The 517th Parachute Regimental Combat Team 1943-1945:

“He always carried a six-shot .45 caliber revolver, U.S. Army Model 1917. It had a left-hand holster and Lyman always wore it on the right side with the butt forward, Wild Bill Hickok style … . On the morning after the drop, Lyman was walking in a town with the revolver in hand when a German captain on a bicycle rode around a corner toward him. They were so close to each other that Lyman’s shot knocked the German completely off his seat.” 

Several days later, during an attack on an enemy bunker position, Lyman again made good use of his M1917 revolver:

“Lyman stepped out from behind a tree, facing the sentry, certainly no less than forty feet away, and raised his Tommy gun. Apparently, when he pushed the magazine in, he did not slam it hard. When he pulled the trigger, the magazine fell out and the bolt, failing to strip off a cartridge, banged into the chamber with a loud, metallic click.”

“The sentry, hardly more than a boy … stared at Lyman, frozen in disbelief. Lyman threw down the Thompson and drew his .45 revolver. The sentry hardly moved. The .45 slug hit him in the chest … and he went backwards into the bush behind him.”

Shortly afterward, Pvt. Lyman was injured when a backblast from a bazooka knocked him against a tree, fracturing his arm. As related in the above-cited book:

“We heard he took his .45 revolver with him to the hospital. First, they tried to take it away on the grounds it was government issue. He pointed it at a major, telling him there was no way he would let them steal it. Then they sought to use a general anesthetic to set his arm. He refused, saying that they would steal the piece while he was out. So, they told him he would have to have it fixed without the benefit of anesthetic. Lyman said he yelled like hell because of the pain but never gave up the revolver.”

While other American combat troops who used the M1917 revolvers may not have been as passionate as Pvt. Lyman about the sixgun, vintage photos illustrate the guns being employed in combat settings in all theaters of the war.

In May 1945, it was proposed that the M1917 revolvers be declared “Obsolete,” but the provost marshal general objected and the proposal was dropped. This action indicates that the Military Police still considered the revolvers to have value and wanted to retain the guns.

mail guards
In the early 1920s, U.S. Marines served as “mail guards.” The three Marines in the foreground have Model 1917 revolvers in Model 1909 holsters. Three of the Marines are also armed with M1903 rifles and a Remington Model 10 12-ga. “trench gun.”

Just before the conclusion of World War II, the Ordnance Dept. contracted with Smith & Wesson and Colt to re-build large numbers of M1917 revolvers. An Ordnance report dated March 30, 1945, indicated that 23,000 S&W M1917 revolvers were overhauled at a cost of $6.80 each, increased to $7.10 on May 12, 1945. The work was to be completed between April and November 1945. A “sandblast/blue” finished was specified. On April 5, 1945, an Ordnance contract was given to Colt for the overhaul of 33,000 M1917 Colt revolvers at a cost of $12 each. The contracts were still in process in 1946.

When U.S. military handguns of World War I and World War II are discussed, most of the emphasis is, understandably, placed on the Model 1911/M1911A1 pistols, as they were the standard military handguns and saw extensive use in both wars. However, the Model 1917 revolvers also saw surprisingly widespread combat use during World War I. Likewise, the M1917 revolvers played an important role in arming Military Police units as training guns and, when necessary, combat arms during World War II.

In many ways, the story of the M1917 revolvers mirrors that of the M1917 rifle. Both were adopted early after America’s entrance into World War I as an expedient measure to provide badly needed arms to the U.S. military at a perilous time. Neither was the first choice of the War Dept., but could be procured much more quickly than the standardized Model 1911 pistol and Model 1903 rifle when time was of the utmost importance.

Both proved to be dependable and serviceable, but were relegated to “second-string” status after the Armistice. Yet when called upon to serve again during World War II, both provided valuable service to our armed forces until the production of M1911A1 pistols and M1 Garand rifles could ramp up to meet the demand.

Although no Colt or S&W Model 1917 revolvers were manufactured after 1919, they proved to be a great investment for Uncle Sam that continued to pay dividends for over a quarter-century. When considering the American handguns of the World War I and II, the Model M1911/M1911A1 pistols are, understandably, given the most attention. However, the valuable contributions of the Model 1917 revolvers to the war effort in 1917-1918 and again in 1941 to 1945 should not be overlooked.

Saturday, March 9, 2019

Most Common United State Army Pistols



When I was an Armorer, I dealt with several kinds of Pistols, we had the .45 ACP, we also had 2 kinds of Revolvers,

We had a Ruger Service 6 in .38 Special and the Smith and Wessen MP in .38Special
The people in Army Aviation had the revolvers.  I personally liked the Ruger better, it looked "Beefier" and better to control, although the S&W model 10 was a good revolver.
 
     I had my personal .45, but it got stolen after I returned to the world.  Still miss that pistol, but the chances of my ever getting that pistol back is slim.

From the Revolutionary War to the War on Terror, there has been a pistol in the hands of our military men and women. Let’s take a look at the pistols that have helped them win wars, both at home in America and abroad.
     The first sidearm used in the defense of the U.S.A. was the Flintlock Model 1775. This was almost a direct copy of the British model 1760, but it was made in the U.S. for the continental army.
You may recognize this pistol as the symbol of the U.S. Army Military Police Corps or as the pistol on the U.S. Navy SEAL trident.
The Model 1775 was a .62 caliber smoothbore flintlock pistol that became a favorite among officers due to its ease of use and its accuracy — despite being a smoothbore pistol.

A flintlock pistol circa 1700–1730.
The first Continental Congress purchased 2,000 of these pistols to be manufactured and produced in the U.S. by the Rappahannock Forge in Virginia. This pistol served in the Revolutionary War, the War of 1812, and the Spanish American War — right up until the introduction of the revolver in the mid-1800s.

Samuel Colt, the founder of Colt Firearms, revolutionized warfare with his revolving pistol that could shoot multiple bullets without the need to reload. This was a major accomplishment in increasing the lethality of warfare in the modern era.

His initial design ushered in a number of revolvers that would service the U.S. military, including the Colt 1847, the Colt M1848 Dragoon, the Colt Army Model 1860, and the Colt Single Action Army.

1847 Colt Walker.
The two most prominent revolvers from this list are the Colt Army Model 1860 (which saw extensive use during the American Civil War) and the Colt Single Action Army.
The U.S. government ordered over 220,000 of the Model 1860 for the War Between the States, and the cap and ball revolvers that shot a .44 caliber bullet were mass produced for all the Union forces.
The Colt Single Action Army — or, as it is more famously known, “the gun that won the west” — is one of the most iconic American guns. Both outlaws and heroes carried it in their gun holsters. Virtually unchanged in design and still in wide use today, it is a .45 caliber pistol that carries six metallic cartridges.

Colt Army 1860, early Model with fluted Cylinder and 7 1/2″ Barrel cal .44. 
Probably the most recognizable pistol in U.S. military history, the Colt Model 1911 served American troops in both World War I and World War II as well as Korea, Vietnam, and many other 20th-century conflicts. In fact, this pistol served as the sidearm for the U.S. military for 74 years.



A government-issue ‘Model of 1911’ pistol (serial number: 94854) manufactured in 1914
The Colt Model 1911 was the first semi-automatic pistol to be adopted by the U.S. military.  The United States Army ran into a nasty surprise during the Philippine insurrection, the Moro warriors being hopped up on whatever the drug of choice would be almost immune to the damage caused by the .38 caliber revolvers the troops normally used.  Many started carrying heavier caliber revolvers for personal protection.  Over 2 million pistols were created, and it became a favorite weapon because of the powerful .45 ACP rounds that stopped enemies in their tracks.
This pistol’s lethality made it virtually irreplaceable until the U.S. military decided to adopt the smaller-caliber M9 Beretta in the mid-1980s.
Despite the military’s official adoption of this newer pistol, many Special Forces units opted to carry the 1911 over the Berretta, and it remains a favorite of the United States Marine Corps Reconnaissance Forces.

Naval Aviation Cadets from the Naval Air Station at the pistol range with Colt M1911-A1 .45 pistols, Corpus Christi, Texas, United States, circa 1941.

The M9 Beretta beat out a military favorite when it was chosen to replace the Colt 1911 for a number of reasons. Not only was it lighter and carried more rounds, but it was chambered in the NATO 9mm, making it a top pick among Defense Department officials.

Beretta M9 pistol.
The M9 Beretta was adopted in 1985 and has served in the military ever since, including Iraq and Afghanistan. As a single or double action pistol, it is capable of carrying 15+1, which more than doubles the capacity of the 1911.
Another respected feature of this pistol is it can be adapted for different missions.
When the U.S. was caught up in deadly urban warfare conflicts in Iraq, Beretta developed the M9A1 that featured a Picatinny rail, so the military could affix a light or laser, making the M9 better for the house-to-house and street-to-street fighting that was common in Iraq.
This pistol would go on to serve until 2015 when the U.S. Army announced that it was looking for a replacement to the M9.
Beretta M9A1.

The Sig Sauer P320 is the newest addition to this long lineage of pistols carried by the U.S. military. On January 19, 2017, the U.S. Army formally announced that the P320 — the pistol now known as the M17 — beat over 20 other pistols to be crowned the new standard-issue military sidearm.

SIG Sauer P320 compact pistol. 
The U.S. Army ordered almost 300,000 full-size pistols and another 7,000 compact models. Some other branches may have ordered another 200,000, which would account for over half a million pistols commissioned by the U.S. government.
This pistol emerged as a favorite because the Army was looking for something that was easily adaptable to their missions.

     They wanted a firearm to have parts that could be swapped out to meet the increasingly changing environments in which the Army conducts operations. The M17 offers all this flexibility and more. It discharges a 9mm bullet, and you can change the grips and slide to meet the needs of almost any mission.
It is easily broken down into a concealable handgun as well. This is the new service weapon of the U.S. military, and it will serve alongside the members of the Armed Services for years to come.

Saturday, June 9, 2018

21 Foot "Rule"? Discussing the Tueller Drill

I am at fault in this, I and many others practice for shooting at 21 foot Rule, unless we are using a rifle.  I always heard of the 21 foot rule and I always practiced it, it is my "Combat distance, it is how I and I am sure many others have trained to draw and shoot a pistol.
Using a pic of my Dad shooting at 21 feet(ish)   
I suppose part of the reason for that is anything past 50 feet is kinda hit or miss with a pistol unless you have one of those tuned up "raceguns".  But I recall the 21 foot rule being a standard especially if somebody has a knife and coming at you.

Massad Ayoob discussing the "Tueller Drill"

Massad is a legend in the gun community, I remembered reading his articles and books in American Rifleman and other gun magazines.  He always talked about "Self Defense"and how to handle yourself when talking to the police or the court system.  I remembered something he said a long time ago when you are discussing pistol calibers and bullets, he always said that you stick with the basic facts, for example "Service Pistol ammunition, not ".357 magnum full metal jacket hollow point."  That second comment might pardon the phrase "trigger a Jury or a political minded district attorney." and cause one more trouble.  

    
Massad Ayoob in Atlanta NRAAM 2017.  I was honored to meet him and a bunch of other people in my first NRAAM last year, that is part of the reason I looked forward to going to Dallas this year and next year in Indianapolis 2019.  I already have my hotel room reserved.

Too many people in both LEO and non-LEO circles have needlessly gotten themselves killed or injured because they mistakenly believed the Tueller Drill (a.k.a., "the 21-Foot Drill") is somehow a "rule." It is NOT a rule of any kind. It is ONLY a drill.

To quickly clarify, in March 1983, SWAT Magazine published an article by then-Salt Lake City (UT) Police Sergeant Dennis Tueller entitled How Close is Too Close? The article revealed that the average individual closed a gap of 21-feet in 1.5 seconds. Some younger and healthier individuals closed that gap faster; some older and less-healthy individuals closed that gap slower. But the AVERAGE individual closed it in just 1.5 seconds.

It also noted that the average trained individual requires 1.5 seconds to draw, present, and fire a holstered handgun. Again, some trained individuals do it faster, others slower. But the AVERAGE trained individual does it in 1.5 seconds.

There is NO rule or law or policy that precludes a LEO or non-LEO who is in reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury to him or herself or others from drawing and firing at an assailant positioned more than 21-feet away. Indeed, the point of the article is that if you have waited until the assailant is at, much less within 21-feet you have likely waited too long to draw and fire your weapon -- so you had damn well better have other skill sets to protect your life and the lives of those around you.

As in the children's game "Telegraph," over time this simple fact has often been misunderstood as being some make-believe "21-foot rule." NO SUCH RULE EXISTS!

In the 35 years since Sgt. Tueller's article first appeared, countless techniques have been developed by LEO and non-LEO self-defense trainers to both get the student off the X in order to give him or herself more time and distance to react to an attack with a contact weapon, as well as giving the student more skills with which to react.

Wednesday, June 20, 2012

ID a pistol...

I was asked by my Dad to ID a pistol for him,  The only ID markings on it are a 7...  The rest is pitted, The other side has "PS" on it.  From the looks of it I believed it to be a Tokorav varient or another combloc firearm due to the rounded end of the slide and the shape of the pistol grip.  I believe that the pistol may be a .25 caliber from the size, it is hard to deduce from a photo.   I am hoping others are more knowledgeable than I am.  I am not afraid to ask for help.)   I was told that it is a pretty old gun.

    Here is the photo